I'm 52 years old and changing my bad habits isn't easy. I seem unable to stop eating ice cream every night at 10 p.m., and I continue to leave my keys on the island in the middle of our kitchen despite my wife's repeated appeals to place them elsewhere. So I was more than a little surprised when this old dog learned some important new tricks about listening better.

As a reporter, I've been a professional listener for most of my life. At Columbia University's School of Journalism, Professor Luther P. Jackson, the most influential educator in my life, drilled into me that good journalism is always about people. Thanks to his brilliance, I've spent my career trying to listen carefully to the people I write about. I always thought I was pretty good at it until I attended a recent meeting in Orlando, Fla.:

The two-day meeting was hosted by Scott Farnsworth, an estate-planning attorney who founded Sunbridge Legacy Builder Network (http://sunbridgelegacy.com). Farnsworth coaches lawyers, insurance agents and financial advisors on how to make estate planning more about people and less about legalese, and I wrote a story about his efforts last August. Then in February, Scott invited a group of ten professionals-including lawyers, advisors and me-to a brainstorming session about how to make his values-based style of estate planning more widespread. Changing the way estate planning is practiced is no small goal, of course, but Farnsworth's intentions are noble, his methods are innovative and his motives are pure. And two days in Orlando in February sounded pretty good.

Before I left, Farnsworth sent me Time To Think, a book by Nancy Kline, and he told me that Kline would be facilitating the meeting. On the flight down, I read most of the book and thought it was good. I had no idea how Kline's techniques would benefit me.

Meeting Kline and seeing her put her practices to use with our group was a powerful learning experience. Every person in the group was allowed to speak for five minutes on a topic in orderly rounds. No interrupting was allowed. I found that speaking for five minutes was easier than listening to someone for five minutes. At the end of each day of the meeting, I was exhausted from listening. People spoke from the heart, and one man cried during the session while speaking about his interactions with clients. I was profoundly affected by the Time To Think methods employed by Kline to facilitate the meeting.   

When I came home, I found myself speaking differently with my wife and children. I was much more tuned in with them. I put some of the techniques I learned into practice with my staff. I'm not saying that I've been using the Time To Think principles all the time during the last few months, but I'm definitely much more aware of listening to people during crucial conversations. What I also learned from Kline's technique, however, is how my listening helps the other person think better as well. It's a rewarding experience.

Kline, 62, has this incredibly gracious bearing, and a calming, caring aura surrounds her. She started working on Time To Think in 1984 after running The Thornton Friends School in Washington, D.C., for 12 years and serving as director of the Leadership Institute for six years. Her clients include major global companies such as Pfizer and the BBC. She now lives in Oxfordshire, England, in a hamlet about 12 miles from Oxford near the River Thames with her husband Christopher Spence. (Now retired, Spence was the founder and chief executive of the famous HIV/AIDS Centre in London for ten years and then chief executive of Volunteering England and president of the European Consortium on Volunteering. He also was chairman of the Diana, Princess of Wales Memorial Fund. In all these ventures, Kline's Time To Think techniques were utilized.) I interviewed Kline by telephone from her home.

Gluck: Why did you write Time To Think? What's wrong with the way people think now?

Kline: What's wrong? Anything that isn't good as it can be-anything that is not enhancing human life, anything that is not an expression of what's finest in human beings-is what I'd like to change. The reason I'm interested in thinking is that all of those not-good things are a product of our thinking. Everything we do starts with the thinking we do first.

Gluck: It's such a big idea that you're talking about that a lot of people might have trouble relating to it. Bring it in a context my readers can relate to. You're a financial advisor. How will Time To Think help you?

Kline: The plan you make for your client will be only as good as the thinking you both do. It's not just going to be a product of the thinking you, as the advisor, do. It's going to be a product of both of your thinking. Typically, in the advisor-client relationship, people believe there is one expert. The client's good thinking is hardly ever the focus. As a result, the plan is not as good as it could be. It's not as expressive of the client's needs as it can be. Often, clients eventually turn away from the advisor. They don't know exactly why. But it's because the client was never truly tapped for his knowledge. By using the Time To Think principles, an advisor creates a better product, a better plan and better outcome for clients. When the advisor has the expertise to behave in the way that lets clients access their finest thinking, the financial plan becomes a collaborative outcome.

Gluck: You've described a bad outcome in an advisor-client relationship. Describe a good outcome in which Time To Think principles are put in place.

Kline: One good outcome would be that the plan itself reflects the client's values and will reflect more of what really matters to the client. It will lead to a more accurate expression of the client. In the process, the client thinks afresh and has his own insights. That makes the client feel more trusting of you. So the outcome is good for the advisor as well. It goes beyond what they ever expected from an advisor. A client who experiences this kind of behavior and expertise from the advisor tells their friends about it. It's a transformative experience to be with an advisor who can listen this well and manifest these behaviors.

Gluck: What about benefits on the human side, the touchy-feely stuff? I remember during the two days that we met and used your methodology seeing a grown man cry. Talk about that kind of sharing.

Kline: In the presence of this kind of attention, people feel things. They explore things that are deeply important to them. They access stories that reveal who they really are, what really matters to them, what they most want to achieve and leave behind. This kind of attention creates a sense of safety that allows people to reveal all facets of themselves. The very best of us becomes accessible. Sometimes pain surfaces, and this beautiful, natural thing the human body does to release it is in the form of tears. Sometimes people cry because they're so relieved; they're relieved to have finally thought through an issue themselves. They're relieved to find solutions they didn't even think of or didn't think were possible. And sometimes they're relieved to be appreciated. Interestingly, we know now that the heart rhythm and variability stabilize in the presence of appreciation.

The cortex is stimulated when thinking starts. We find also that the advisor, the one giving the attention, has a profound human experience from listening as well. In a very short time, a listener becomes not only understanding of but sometimes feels warmth toward the client, in a bounded and professional way, of course. You see the humanity in your clients quickly, which creates better thinking for both of you.

Gluck: How do we get from here to there? What are the behavioral changes an advisor must make?

Kline: The most important behavior is attention. It's foremost among ten properties of what I call a thinking environment. Attention describes a most profound and transformative property in the quality of listening.

Gluck: What's important to know about attention to help people think?

Kline: Attention is driven not by preparing to reply, but by interest in what the client will say next. It's driven by the courage to trust the intelligence of the client, rather than to assume that the key intelligence in the interaction is yours. This kind of attention is wholly non-interruptive. The client knows he will not be interrupted. So he thinks faster, more robustly and rigorously. This kind of attention does not put words in the mouth of a client, but honors fully the chosen words of the client by wanting to know exactly what he thinks. This kind of attention takes place with much less note-taking than most advisors do.

It's seamless, relaxed attention. This sort of attention is not in a hurry. It's true to time boundaries that are stated up front, but it is not in a hurry in the time that's given. The advisor learns that this sort of attention is beautiful, and very active. It is a very present and engaged activity. It looks very still, like you're not doing anything. You listen respectfully with profound interest in where the client will go next with his ideas. And then, when the client comes to a pause or an end of a thought, you ask for more. Before asking about topics or offering any information or advice, you can ask, "What more do you want to say about this topic?" When an advisor offers clients this kind of attention, a client may often have more ideas of what needs to go into his financial plan than the advisor.

Gluck: How about overt listening skills-facial expressions and comments to encourage the person you're listening to?

Kline: A client will think better when an advisor keeps her eyes on the eyes of the client. The client may look at all sorts of places. We do that when thinking. But the advisor's eyes should stay on the eyes of the client, unless the advisor almost desperately needs to take a note. The advisor's face needs to say back to the client, "I'm interested. I want to know more about these ideas. I respect you. I am glad to be here with you." When a listener's face sinks into worry, fear or cynicism, it's more difficult for the person speaking to think.

Nodding is a good thing but not as much as most people do. People typically nod the minute the speaker looks at them. Actually, we need to get good at remembering that the quality of our attention itself says, "I'm interested." We don't have to be nodding all the time. Nodding can be interpreted as rushing. It sounds very picky, but it has a big impact. It's also good to minimize saying, "Yes, I understand" or "Um-hmm." Otherwise, you risk drawing a client away from their own thinking and toward your thinking, just because of the way you respond in these physical ways. Finally, when meeting in your office, it's important that you not stay behind your desk, that there be no physical barrier between you and the client.

Gluck: So the occasional nod is OK but saying, "Yeah," or "I agree," or repeating the last couple of words of someone's sentence is not good?

Kline: It should not be excessive or mechanistic. Too much approval can guide a client in a direction. Repeating the last few words that a person used is OK to get someone to keep going. What's better is asking, "What else comes to mind?"

Gluck: Getting back to the ten characteristics of a thinking environment, we discussed attention. What's the next most important element?

Kline: The second one is particularly important in the advisor-client relationship. It's equality. We are taught to believe that the advisor is smarter and more valuable in the exchange with a client, and the advisor is the one with the answers. There is a kind of superiority built in. Clients feel inferior in a way, even though the client is paying.

Now, shift that cultural bias so that the client and advisor see each other as equals, as thinkers, as contributors to the quality of the plan. Yes, of course, the advisor has more information about the technicalities of financial planning. But the client has all the information about his or her life. It's different types of information that they each have, but they are equal as thinkers and contributors. That shift makes a big difference in how both people think together-certainly in how the client thinks.

Gluck: Many advisors see themselves as technicians. They may feel uncomfortable with being so touchy-feely with clients. They may feel like using your techniques will make them armchair psychologists.

Kline: When an advisor says to the client, "Your thinking is critical here and part of what we're going to do together; part of my expertise is to create the conditions for you to think well so that you get the best financial plan," that's a long, long way from psychologist. It's so interesting that the minute we become more human, people race to label us as psychologists. The minute we become interested in what's true for someone and what somebody feels, people want to label us as psychologists. Actually, they should just label us as human beings.

Listening deeply is a reclaiming of our humanity, rather than stepping into professional territory that we don't have expertise in. When advisors are uncomfortable with the touchy-feely aspect of client relationships, all that's happening is that they have begun to do something that training as a financial advisor did not teach them.  

Gluck: What's the third element necessary for creating a thinking environment?

Kline: Ease. People think better when the listener is at ease inside, even if the demands in one's life and general sort of escalation of freneticism in our lives is present. That means that you plan carefully, so that the hour or two hours with a client is structured and unhurried. You're not metaphorically or literally looking at your watch. Not being rushed actually speeds up your thinking. Cultivating ease typically leads to saving time. Whereas our culture seems to reinforce the false idea that to hurry, to be urgent, saves time, it often more increases the time it takes to achieve a good outcome. Ease allows a creative force of attention to activate.

Gluck: We're up to the fourth property of a listening environment. What's next?

Kline: Appreciation. In the presence of appreciation, human beings feel better. Appreciation comes in many forms. One form is the question, "What do you think?" That's a very appreciative thing to say to somebody. Appreciation also comes in the form of respect. So telling someone what you honor about them, what you noticed about them that you think is good, successful or that you respect, that's obviously a kind of appreciation. Criticism, especially disproportionate amounts of criticism, makes thinking conformist or weak.

In the last two years, research about the physiology of appreciation shows that your blood flows better to your brain when you're in the presence of appreciation. The variability and pattern of your heartbeat stabilizes. The cortex is stimulated and thinking is better, the research shows. One study showed that relationships were more successful and longer if you show five times more appreciation than criticism. An advisor can think about all the ways he appreciates a client.

Gluck: Please talk about another characteristic of a listening environment: encouragement.

Kline: This is the giving of courage to the person thinking. It's saying, "Go to the unexplored edge of your thinking." The key is eliminating competition between the thinker and listener, or eliminating competition within a team that's thinking together. [It means] recognizing that, despite its worshipped place in our society, competition between people thinking together leads to one person thinking he is better or the winner in the conversation. This happens so much in teams, and it is destructive to good thinking. The decision that we won't compete with each other, that we will be more interested in an intelligent, good outcome than in who thought of the idea, is critical to good thinking.

The advisor-client relationship, while not usually described this way, is usually one ongoing act of competition in which the advisor shows he is smarter than the client and is seen to have had better answers than the client, and to, in effect, have won. Some advisor offices are even set up to look like something that the client will regard as sort of intimidating and overwhelming-as a statement of superiority of the advisor. Encouragement means avoiding this and providing the opposite of intimidation, giving the thinker courage.

Gluck: What's next?

Kline: Information. The client has critically important information about his life, needs and values. Not just information about assets, but information about the client. The client is the major resource. Keep in mind, the advisor really is actually a person who does not know what the client will say. Advisors have to be able to hear anything and be respectful in the presence of those things. It's important to realize that a person thinks badly when they're in denial. Denial is the assumption that what's true is not true and what's not true is true. Basically, denial is a state of operating on false information. You must be mindful of this to get complete and accurate information. Shall I go to the next one?

Gluck: Please.

Kline: The next property of a thinking environment is diversity. Every human being that walks into your office is many groups of people. We are white and black and we are Jews. We are Christians and we are from Wisconsin and from Bangladesh. We are in wheelchairs and we're not. We're over 60 and we're under 30. We are mothers and we are fathers. We are so many groups. Many of those groups are the target of untrue, limiting assumptions that limit our power, dignity and well-being. In a thinking environment, the listener has to do as good a job as possible of divesting themselves of those untrue assumptions that they've been taught about various groups. Of course, we don't know of anybody that's ever done that wholly successfully.

To be conscious of the impact that our unstated, untrue assumptions about people-because of their identities-has on our thinking is important. Start being aware that, although you might say you're not prejudiced against any particular group, society has taught you to be. Just to recognize that is a start on the journey of recognizing the assumptions you may be making about clients. For example, let's talk about gender for a second, which is one group that everybody belongs to. Clients often won't think well in front of an advisor who, for example, might not be giving equal time to, let's say, the woman in the couple. The advisor is unaware that he is giving most of the time to the man. Or sometimes the reverse can happen. Diversity means welcoming groups different from and ideas different from your ideas. It will help the client think well.

Gluck: What's left to cover in creating a thinking environment in your office?

Kline: Actually, the office itself. The place is one of the components. The physical place where you are also has an impact on thinking. The place needs to say back to you that you matter. It's interesting, Andy, but the offices of professional advisors often seem to say, "You don't matter. I matter." Advisors can turn physical premises into places that welcome clients as an equal.  

Gluck: I've experienced firsthand the profound impact that Time To Think principles can have on a person. Can people fully understand your ideas without experiencing it in a training session with you?

Kline: Some people report that after reading Time To Think their attention is much more of this quality. Some advisors report that their clients tell them this. What's an improvement for one person may not be really quite at the level that clients need. A person can make the decision that, unless there is a fire, you will not interrupt anybody ever again in your work. Or start with the client. Commit to never again interrupt a client. That's a start.

Advisors can also decide that they will tell their clients that they won't interrupt them and that they're doing that because at least 50% of the planning process is getting generative thinking from the client. The deeper quality that one wants finally to attain takes practice. But I believe that you can decide to be interested. You can make a commitment to be interested in what another person is thinking and saying, and that makes a difference.
But the real issue is that advisors are educated to have answers, and they think that that's what expertise is. They think that that's what clients are buying, and the clients also think that's what they're buying. Advisors who have become "thinking-environment practices" re-educate themselves and their clients. They and their clients come to understand that, although the technical financial knowledge the advisor possesses is important, of equal importance is the advisor's expertise in generating the thinking of the client. When the client understands that's part of what they're buying, it becomes easier for the advisor to do it.

Gluck: If an advisor reads this article and wants to learn more about your ideas, what's the best way?

Kline: [Through] the foundation program of the thinking environment, which is taught by two people in the United States, soon to be three, and by me when I'm there. That program, which is two days, allows people to experience the ten components of a thinking environment and apply them to client meetings and interviews, business meetings and other business interactions.

Andrew Gluck, a longtime writer and journalist, is CEO of Advisor Products Inc. (www.advisorproducts.com), a Westbury, N.Y., marketing company serving 1,800 advisory firms.